Vinithra A
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Vinithra A
Participant1.3 Human Heritage
Problem: Can’t find happiness.
Reason :No happiness in external objects because:
same object does it give equal
happiness to all.
same object doesn’t give me happiness at all times.
Solution: Happiness our own nature-
(suppressed when desire present & expressed when desire satisfied.)
Self restraint.
Keep head above heart.
Eg:beggar sitting on treasure box.
Ocean shore : changing world ; ocean inside: unchanging reality;
boat : who fall prey to senses;
lighthouse :who are not influenced by senses;
compass: Scriptures.1.4 Joy of Living
Problem: We avoid sorrow & want happiness.
But desire satisfaction reduces happiness.
Reason: happiness = no. of desires fulfilled / no of desires entertained.
When Numerator ↑ Denominator ↑ denominator ->0 happiness-> infinity.
Solution: Focus on decreasing desires
Keep higher goal.
Eg: smoker cigarette joy reducingVinithra A
ParticipantI feel material desires can never be 0 practically.
We must turn material into spiritual desire to make it 0.
Desires can be replaced or reduced.
Immoral desires-> Moral but selfish-> selfless desires for larger cause -> desire for Self/God realisation.
Then that desire too goes away.Vinithra A
Participant2.1 Inevitability of Action:
Action is must & nobody can remain without action.
Action is based on how we work NOT what work we do.
Labourer/Vyavasayi:
selfish desire;less focus & joy;no higher goal;
motivated by desire.
Worker/Sevakari:
selfless desire;more focus & joy;higher goal;
motivated by happiness.
Person of Perfection/Gyani:
no selfish/selfless desire;action done not for happiness but from happines.
They are ever happy in Reality.2.2 Secret of Success:
Problem:Work seems stressful & makes us tired.
Reason:selfish work ->more fatigue & less joy.
selfless work ->more joy & less fatigue.
Solution:
Vyavasayi -> sevakari->gyani.
Go from self-family-society-God.
Scriptures tell working for God Highest.
Result:
Achievement with joy;
Dynamic action + calm mind.
Eg: Krishna in Mahabharata War.Vinithra A
Participant2.3 Sacred and secular:
Life = series of experience. Experience =world + me.
2 types of scientist:
Objective scientist:
Comfort in world; Improve standard of living.
3 types of people who focus on improving-
Economist: wealth,politician: inter people & scientist: resources. Improving science without values will result in destruction like nuclear bomb.
Subjective scientist:
Better me.
Improve standard of life.
Rishis investigate & reasearch into human personality & draw attention to divine Self.
Also the findings are logical.
Problem: Happiness & sorrow while contacting the world.
Reason:Imbalance of sacred & secular or (world & me).
Eg:mast = secular world;
Anchor= sacred me;
mast high ,anchor not deep-> ship topple.
Anchor deep, no mast ->ship doesn’t move
Solution: Work without attachment & improve standard of life(me).2.4 Dual path:
Problem:-Some think religion binds them& takes away freedom, so they avoid spiritual practices.
-Some forcefully deny enjoyment & it creates suppression.
Reason:Lack of knowledge of pleasant & good.
Solution: Understand pleasant & good path- Choose good over pleasant.
Sublimate desire don’t suppress.
Suppression:
Forceful denial of sense objects without understanding knowledge of Higher.
Lower tendencies bounce back like spring.
Degenerates individual’s mental attitude.
Eg:child throwing away doll in anger.
Sublimation:
controlling the senses with understanding.
Lower tendencies disappear automatically.
Improves mental attitude & individual
be comes greater.
Eg: teenager realizes dolls are not so important.Vinithra A
ParticipantWhen we clearly understand that the happiness lies in us & objects outside don’t give us happiness, we stop wanting them.
Then we can do work as duty & it will not create further desires.
By doing so we can exit the cycle.
As you have mentioned for fully bloomed desires(existing ones),I feel it can be reduced gradually( reminding ourselves the path of Shreyas everytime ) & then stopped to avoid suppression.Vinithra A
Participant- Here,Vidya= Upasana;Avidya = not upasana or karma.
- Only karma gives freedom from impulsive actions & pitru loka, svarga loka after death.Only Upasana gives maha,Jana,tapa,Satya loka.Vidya & avidya combined to give maximum possible result( within ignorance ).
- Maximum result is oneness with deity+ siddhis+ lifetime of 1 Kalpa. Inspite of so much efforts individuality (Agyana) is still there , also one has greater pleasure & attachment. It comes to an end( even though for long time)Ishavasya idam sarvam liberates here & now permanently easily.
Vinithra A
Participant- Sambhuti upasana/hiranyagarbha/karya brahman/vyakta/ -starts with I am hiranyagarbha. Asambhuti upasana/ Ishwara /karana brahman/avyakta.-Starts with I am Prakriti Aditya Mandala Purusha the cause behind the sun is worshipped as both.Ends with oneness with deity.
- Sambhuti gives the result of oneness with hiranyagarbha + Siddhis.Asambhuti Upasana gives result of Sayujya mukti (oneness with Ishwara) + all powers except creation ,maintenance ,destruction.Combination gives maximum result of Prakriti Laya.
- The maximum result is Prakriti Laya like sleeping here itself for KalpaEg: King MuchukundaThere is no universe for them so individuality suppressed but not erased completely.It is in realm of ignorance.It also ends inspite of so much efforts.Whereas Ishavasya Idam Sarvam destroys our individuality while living liberating us here & now.
Vinithra A
Participant- Sambhuti upasana/hiranyagarbha/karya brahman/vyakta/ -starts with I am hiranyagarbha Asambhuti upasana/ Ishwara /karana brahman/avyakta -Starts with I am Prakriti Aditya Mandala Purusha the cause behind the sun is worshipped as both.Ends with oneness with deity.
- Sambhuti gives the result of oneness with hiranyagarbha + SiddhisAsambhuti Upasana gives result of Sayujya mukti (oneness with Ishwara) + all powers except creation ,maintenance ,destruction.Combination gives maximum result of Prakriti Laya.
- The maximum result is Prakriti Laya like sleeping here itself for KalpaEg: King MuchukundaThere is no universe for them so individuality suppressed but not erased completely.It is in realm of ignorance.It also ends inspite of so much efforts.Whereas Ishavasya Idam Sarvam destroys our individuality while living liberating us here & now.
(These are 4,5,6 answers unable to change number)
Vinithra A
Participant-
Isavasyam idam sarvam-verse 6=Whoever sees everything (made up of 5 Mahabhutas- entire universe) in Self & sees Self in all objects ,beings.This view is possible when only 1 is real & other is appearance => Self is there & universe is appearance => Brahma Satya Jagat Mithya Jivo Brahmaiva Na Parah.After realising his own nature as Brahman, he doesn’t hate anybody,anything also not desire.There is no Raga Dvesha.-verse 7=When one sees Self alone in all , the delusion of individuality (identifying himself with body,mind) is gone.When the delusion is not there, the problems of his body mind are not really His problem & remains unaffected.Hence there is no sorrow.
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Verse 8″Akayam” : free of sukshma sharira( subtle body).”Avranam & asnaviragm “:no wound ,naadi .Sthula sharira (gross body)”Shuddham”: free of avidya mala(dirt of ignorance)Karana sharira( causal body).”Apapaviddham”: free of paapa& punyaSukshma or karana sharira
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With karma & upasana one gets maximum possible results- Highest loka .But still there is sense of individuality & fruit obtained comes to an end.They are still Agyani.This discussion is done not to criticize or stop doing karma, upasana but to show the importance of Aatma Vidya.One can become Gyani by this here & now.The result is permanent.
Vinithra A
Participant-
Ishta karma are vedic rituals yagya etcpoortha karma are social service , welfare activities.It prevents from being immoral.After death ,one gets pitru loka or svarga loka.
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—Karma:After death one goes to pitru & svarga loka DarknessSense of individuality & attachment—Upasana :after death one goes to maha,Jana,tapo,Satya loka devatma bhava oneness with deityGreater darknessGreater attachmentBoth come to an end
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Ahamgrahopasana One starts worshipping the deity as separate & finally devatma bhava (oneness with hiranyagarbha) is obtained after death of the body.Different levels are Salokya (same loka),Samipya(near to), Sarupya(same form) & Sayujya (feeling of oneness ) with deity.In maximum possible Sayujya mukti,he gets all powers of deity except creation,maintenance,destruction.This can’t be experienced now but based on Shraddha only.
Vinithra A
Participant-
Self with Upadhi (Sopadhika aspect) always moves/changesEg: when hand moves & even when the hand is stationary ( because not acting itself is an action)Self in Nirupadhika aspect doesn’t move /change eg: Even when hand moves/doesn’t move there is no change in Self.
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Self is farFor those who are ignorant about it, it is so far like 100s of crores of years because they keep on taking births without realising Self.Self is nearFor those who have realised their own nature as Self, it is very near (closest possible because there is no difference).
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When one sees Self in all & all in Self( means only Self is present),his delusion of individuality goes away.So he doesn’t desire to accumulate for his particular body mind.When others have something better, he doesn’t feel angry or jealous.Thus he gets rid of sorrows.
Vinithra A
ParticipantIgnoring our real nature of Self & identifying ourselves with changing body ,mind is killing our Self.
Due to this we do actions & get result of actions
In order to experience those results we keep on getting different births( according to our karma)
Asura loka
Agyani in all births & worlds are said to be in Asura loka.
They have jagat Satya,anatma buddhi & are focused on enjoyment.
They don’t realise Self & keep on getting births.
So they are in blinding darknessVinithra A
Participant- The contradictions made in verse 4 areIt doesn’t move or change &It is running : it is faster than mind & sensesThe contradictions are made so that we don’t think Self as a concept or thing & we understand the real nature of Self which is beyond words.
- Self is everywhere , wherever mind goes Self is already present.So Self is faster than mind.
- Matarisva refers to Hiranyagarbha aspect of Ishwara.Because of Self, Hiranyagarbha functions : all deities perform their duties.
2nd question which components of mind I couldn’t understand.
Vinithra A
ParticipantOk thanks Arvind ji
‘ > ‘here means faster thanI now understand this:
Pure consciousness (Self) > Reflected consciousness (in mind) > thought in mind > senses.
So Self overtakes all theseVinithra A
ParticipantFor those who don’t have inclination towards Aatma Vidya & those who have inclination towards it but don’t have capacity action is the only option.
Doing actions with desires (sakama karma) increases our Raga Dvesha.
Whereas Karma yoga gives a sense of duty and we develop the Ishwara Arpanam buddhi : dedicating action to God & Samatva: being balanced, accepting the result success or failure as God’s wish.
It reduces Raga Dvesha.
With purified & focused mind one is eligible for Aatma Vidya Nivritti Marga. -
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