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Reflection Questions Day 2

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    • #624006
      Meera Sheth
      Participant

      If one has the notion of isavasya idam sarvam then one can succeed in dropping ones individuality and proceeding to the core.
      The jiva can see itself as Ishvara, thus resulting in liberation of the self from this cycle of life and death.

    • #624014

      The Upanishad prescribes the ‘Duty to be performed’ to one who believes desires need to be fulfilled for gaining happiness and has a nature that is totally action focused i.e externally focused on the world. Additionally such a person is simply not attracted to going internal and also to ‘unaction’ or renunciation aspects as he does not find any value in these concepts.
      The Upanishad prescribes ‘Duty to be performed’ to such individuals who in fact constitute the vast majority of population inhabiting the world because such desire fulfilling action oriented persons are likely to follow an ‘action oriented path’ and when intense involved Actions are performed as one’s duties ( and not with much focus on the results) then purification of the mind – Chitta shuddhi starts to happen. Slowly such people start finding happiness in performing their duty directed actions themselves and the focus and joy they get from the results of their actions reduce. In effect what started as ‘SAKAMA Karma’ slowly gets converted to ‘NISHKAMA Karma’ whereupon their progress towards Chitta shuddhi accelerates and soon leads to Chitta Ekagrata. Once they attain Chitta Shuddhi and Chitta Ekagrata then their subtler mind starts appreciating the higher values of life the they become ready and eligible for the Gnana Marga! Thus the Upanishad by this prescription eventually enables in bringing the action oriented and natured person into the path of Knowledge!

    • #624013
      Prema V. Iyer
      Participant

      Reflection Question 1. The goal of life is to free oneself from the cycle of birth and death(samsara) The way to achieve this is by REALISING THE SELF. We already are the SELF, pure, the all pervading consciousness and Bliss. We dont know this, because of the Slime of IGNORANCE covering the SELF. When we Scrub off this slime, we become aware of ourselves as the all pervading SELF. ISHAVASYA IDAM SARVAM when achieved: we see ourselves in every sentient and non-sentient creation in the world.Then what is the result? Result: We will not covet another person’s wealth. There is no one else but the SELF. So everything is MINE anyway !! Why covet another”s wealth? We will not hurt anyone else as that would be hurting ourselves.That should put an end to all crime, all wars between nations too. There will be eternal peace in this world !!
      Reflection Question 2. For the person who has desires, the upanishad prescribes the PERFORMANCE OF DUTIES. The world should become his Karmabhoomi. When duties are performed regularly without fail, THE DISCIPLINE WILL RESULT IN CHANGES IN OURSELVES AND Slowly lead to Nishkama Karma, where our focus shifts from the fruits of our actions to the SELF.Purification of the heart results.Ishavasya idam sarvam is the final result achieved.
      **Reflection Question 3. Kurvan eva. Once Ishavasya idam sarvam is achieved then all ACTIONS performed by that individual become UNACTION(note the spelling UNACTION) as GURUJI says. THey are done with no selfish desires but for the benefit of the society(Nishkama Karma).

    • #624012

      Notion of ‘Ishavasyam idam sarvam’ refers to ‘All this to be pervaded by the Self’ and means seeing oneself as the Whole. This is enabled by going into one’s core when one drops one’s Individuality. Dropping one’s individuality also means dropping one’s totality and only then one can proceed to the Reality and seeing the Oneness between the Self and the Brahman. Thus Ishavasyam idam sarvam results in seeing the always existing reality which is oneness of Brahman and the Self.

    • #624011
      Vinithra A
      Participant
      1. Kurvan Eva is mentioned for those who have desire action is the only method.If it is Sakama Karma there are many actions which are desire oriented; due to which mind will go in many directions & increase Raga,dvesha(likes dislikes).This doesn’t help in liberation If it is Nishkama Karma then mind is disciplined with sense of duty & Raga Dvesha reduceswhich provides way for liberation.So it means Nishkama Karma only

    • #624010
      Vinithra A
      Participant
      1. For those who have desire ,Upanishad prescribes duty because it gives a sense of discipline. To go from Nishiddha karma(prohibited acts)-> Sakama Karma( approved by scriptures but done with desire).Then they can move to Karma Yoga ( gives Chitta Shuddhi: purity of mind) -> Upasana (gives Chitta ekagrata : focused mind)-> knowledge of Ishavasyam sarvam idam : liberation

    • #624009
      Vinithra A
      Participant
      1. When one has the notion of ishavasyam idam sarvam.He sees everyone as Himself, everything as His own.So he does not have desire for his wealth or others wealth.He is freed from kama(desire ) & then all negative qualities krodha (anger) lobha (greed) moha(attachment) madha(pride) matsarya(jealousy).When he is freed from all, he realises his true Self.

    • #624008
      Meera Sheth
      Participant

      .Kurvan Eva indicates nishkama karma by saying that if the body and the indriyan ( karya karna sangathan) is facilitated the self / atma will envelope this whole world and thus all karmas performed by the jiva will be nishkama.
      As then the jiva does not perform karmas motivated by ignorance but through realisation.No longer as an individual because now he has dropped all individuality and merged into the whole.
      No more in the realm of samsara karya.

    • #624007
      Meera Sheth
      Participant

      The Upanishad prescribes duty to be performed by people who are pravrutti oriented.Ever engaged in their karma in action here in this world.
      As long as they perform their duties religiously and with dedication then Sakama vritti will eventually lead to nishkama vritti.This then will become their focus and such disciplined persons will not go astray as they will remain within the gambit of do’s and font’s and ultimately achieve chitta shuddhi.
      Purity of mind will awaken thoughts and thus sakama karma within the bounds of dharma will take the individual to nishkama karma and to isavasyam.

    • #624027
      Jayashree
      Participant

      1)When we have the notion that the world is pervaded by the Lord & you are not different from Lord . You experience the poornathwam. There will be no desire to attain anything more in life. You become fully contented.

      2) For a person who is not interested in Atma vidhya, who still has got desires to earn name ,fame ,lots of wealth and comfort, our scriptures prescribe duties to be performed.He is advised to do his duty according to the injunction given in the scriptures. When he sincerely does his duties it gives him purity of mind & he slowly shifts from desire prompted actions to nishkama karma.(He makes his karma in to karmayoga) This purifies him further and he slowly gets interested in knowing about the Self.(Atma vidhya)

      3)When a person does dedicated & noble work his mind is purified . In the beginning even if he does desire prompted activities, slowly he starts doing activities only for the sake of the work without expecting any personal gain. It then becomes Nishkama karma.

    • #624028
      Anonymous
      Guest
      1. Why should one have the notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam and what is its result?

        • To have the notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam means dropping the individuality that “I am Body, Mind and Intellect” and seeing the one Self as all and in everything. So if one sees “oneself” in everything, that would cease all raga-dvesha, desires and any desire born actions for any of three “eshana” (vitteshana, putreshana and lokeshana). This would lead to the knwoeldge of self and remove the ignorance. So the phala of “īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam” is self-relaization and removal of ignorance.
      2. For whom does the upaniṣad prescribe duty to be performed and why?

        • One who is either not inclined or not able to abide in the teachings of shastras for self-knwoeldge, for them shastras prescribe performance of duty that is in accordance of shastras. Performance of duty within the realm of shastra will do following:
          • Reduce raga-dvesha
          • No new papa will be generated and only punya will be generated
          • Mental purity will lead to vichar
          • vichar will lead to Karma yoga where Selfless service (Nishkama Karma)
          • chit-suddhi
          • Remembering Lord (Upasana)
          • chit-ekagratha
          • Self Knowledge

      So as above doing once’s duty within the bound of shastra will lead to knowledge of the self.

      1. How is kurvan eva (verse 2) indicating niṣkāma-karma?
        • “kurvan eva” – indicates performing one’s shastra prescribed duties while being alert. Being alert while performing duty will remove raga and dvesha which will and bring purity of mind which will lead to vichar and lead to karama yoga where one will perform niskama karma. so “kurvan eva” indicates niskama karma.

    • #624030
      Anonymous
      Guest

      short answers :

      1) free from mental and intellectual questions / worries … LIke a free bird is the result

      2) those who have desire for actions

      3) those who desire for actions, better to do karmayoga-chita sudhi – chita ekakradha and climb towards next stage …. but avoid doing any nishidha karma ….

      Hari Om

    • #624031
      Lavina Sachanandani
      Participant

      Hari Om,

      1. The notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam helps one to drop the wrong notion of individuality. The result is one starts to walk towards the path of desirelessness. Desirelessness = complete inner fulfillment.

      2. For those who are not inclined to the path of knowledge, who are firmly identified with the body-mind complex – dehābhimāni, for them upaniṣad prescribes duty to be performed. Because, the performance of duties with dedication results in purification of the mind. As purification of mind continues to take place sakāma karma transforms to niṣkāma karma awakening vicara and one progresses to īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam.

      3. kurvan eva – with alertness performing one duty – that is performing sakāma karma with keeping rāga dwesha at bay will purify the mind. This will progress to performing actions without any desire for the fruits of action, the attitude of karma yoga. It will lead to transforming the actions from sakāma karma to niṣkāma karma. Therefore, kurvan eva indicates niṣkāma-karma.

    • #624033
      Raina
      Participant

      If we ignore the self or don’t go into self realisation to understand our true nature then we would have killed ourself.
      Then we will be forever emerged in the dark world of ignorance.

    • #624035
      Anant Sarma
      Participant

      Need a little bit more clarity. This mantra still talks about a sadhaka only. He is not realized. He is working on gaining jnana yogyata by performing selfless action.

    • #624036
      Renuka
      Participant
      1. For whom does the upanishad prescribe duty to be performed and why ?

      Vedic teaching has prescribed two types of marg :One is ‘nivritti marg’ another is ‘pravritti marg.’Nirvatti marg is solely based on ‘ renouncing all desires.’

      Hence, it is not easy to be followed by every one who still has so many worldly desires and materialistic interests. Therefore, for the people having an array of desires, ‘ path of action ‘ – performing ones duties dedicatedly has been prescribed by upanishad.

      Following are the reasons :

      1. Path of Action is the starting point for reaching the stage of ‘Isha Vasyam’ – realising the ‘Self’ which pervades everywhere. Because when a person performs his duties keeping ‘ raag-dwesh’ at bay, it gives him ‘ chitta shuddhi ‘ and prasad buddhi and purifies his heart to some extent.

      2. When a person performs his duties pertaining to desires – that is to say sakam karma, it keeps his deeds within the boundaries of Shastras. Thus, the path of action makes him disciplined and focused .

      3. Performing duties saves a person from ‘ ‘sin of omission ‘ and also, it generates ‘punya.’

      4. It also keeps him away from doing ‘nishiddha karma’ which is prohibited by the shastras as the desires are still prevalent in his mind.

    • #624025
      Usha
      Member

      1) We should do 6to realize our innerself and thus be be able to attain the goal without any earthly attachment.
      2) chitta shudhi is what prescribed or dictated by the upanishads to help atma attain higher revelations.
      3) nishkama karma is the path where we carry-on with our duty and expecting no result of it. It simply means purity of heart and dedication.

    • #624023
      Dina Tapodhan
      Participant

      1.Why should one have the notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam and what is its result?

      With the notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam you drop the individualty and see your Self as the totality, everything is You only, the all pervasive Self, as a result desire will ceases

      2.For whom does the upaniṣad prescribe duty to be performed and why?

      The upaniṣad prescribes the duty to be performed for the person who is neither inclined to renunciate individuality nor has abidance in Atmaviddhya. Dedicated performance of duty will pave the way for the higher by giving Chitta-suddhi.

      3.How is kurvan eva (verse 2) indicating niṣkāma-karma?

      kurvan eva means only by doing; by performance of the duty person will get purification of heart as a result he starts moving towards performing actions with Isvararpan-buddhi, in this way kurvan eva is indicating niṣkāma-karma.

    • #624015
      Anuja Shrivastava
      Participant

      Why should one have the notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam..

      The notion will help me go to my core – to the Reality. By reaching the core (Reality),

      Individuality and Totality (also) will be dropped

      Ignorance and its effects, kaarya-kaarana. Sanghaat will be removed.

      One will be free from desire, anger, greed etc

      All Lacks of his life ends

      saadhana chatushtya will be natural to such a mahatma

    • #624016
      Anuja Shrivastava
      Participant

      For whom does the upaniṣad prescribe duty to be performed and why?

      A.
      If one doesn’t have abidance or keenness to know the Self-knowledge and those who have desires, upanishad prescribe duty to be performed.

      By doing this duty, one may start from sakaam karma (pravritti) to akaam karma (nivritti) via karmayog.

      By performing duties, one will be able to
      1) free oneself from raag-dvesh
      2) discipline oneself
      3) no new paapa is generated
      4) heart becomes purified for karmayog for chitta shuddhi and chitta ekagrata

    • #624017

      The word ‘EVA” used alongwith ‘Kurvan’ is what gives the emphasis that such person’s inclination is work alone (and not the results). And when the verse continues to say that the person lives a 100 years doing work alone it clearly follows that the person is intoxicated by the work alone – i.e he gets happiness, satisfaction by the performing the actions themselves as otherwise it is not possible to continue working alone, performing without let up for such long durations like 100 years. If results focus were there than it follows that these results world sometimes be favourable and sometimes unfavourable. And when unfavouable results come it is bound to demotivate, and demoralise the person thereby leading to flagging/reducing intensity of his actions and this would therefore not be possible to be sustatined for long durations like 100 years etc. In effect the person is practising Nishkama Karma as if the karma was based on desires then he would have to be happy when his results are favourable and vice versa. It is therefore clear that in this verse the usage of the word ‘EVA’ is what effectively indicates that Nishkama Karma is meant.

    • #624019
      Sandeep
      Member

      For whom does the upaniṣad prescribe duty to be performed and why?

      The dutyis prescribed by the upanisad for the people who follow the Pravritti Marg.
      Being in the pravritti marg, it is the responsibility of an individual to take care of all who are dependents and associated to him.
      Also, this marg is for the ones who can not leave the desires. To fulfill the desires it is advised by the upanishads to do the Sakaam Karma which will further help in reaching to the Niskam Karma

    • #624020
      Sandeep
      Member

      How is kurvan eva (verse 2) indicating niṣkāma-karma?

      Since the Karma or the duties is part of the Pravritti Marg, the Verse 2 is indicated for the ones who have desires and wish to work for it.
      Therefore, it is advised that the person fulfills the duties through sakaam karma which will help him to achieve Niskaam karma. And the desires associated will finally cease to exist.

    • #624021
      Sandeep
      Member

      Why should one have the notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam and what is its result?
      This notion helps to make one understand that everything is all pervaded by God and is conveying the mahavakya ” Tat Tvam Asi”.
      It also helps one to get rid of all the desires. When everything is you, what is the need to have a desire for it?

    • #624022

      Why should one have the notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam and what is its result?

      Answer:The notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam is needed as it denotes the Mahavakhya. It is the entirety of the shastra. The Self pervades the whole Nama-rupa prapancha. Here Iśa means that which governs, propels or enables Karya-Karana sanghāta (body-antar and bahir indriya) and that is propelled by antaryāmi (meaning, seated within us and propels everything), inner propeller. And vas means to pervade or cover. That pratyagātma is to envelope the whole world or cosmos.

      So, do not limit yourself to the body or till the body, see outside the body and see that also is pervaded by the Self. So, this brings the notion “aham eva idam sarvam”, meaning I am the adishtānam in my true nature.

      The result is that the individuality drops, then that Reality is one and it’s counter part totality is also dropped by going to the inner core. By dropping the individuality, protect yourself from the anxieties rooted from ignorance and its effects (kamadi shat ripu). So, one becomes free of any wishes and wants as there is absence of individuality. I am this body notion is dropped.

      For whom does the upaniṣad prescribe duty to be performed and why?

      Answer:The upanishad is prescribing duty to be performed to those who are neither inclined in the direction of the vairgya, shama, dama, etc… nor has the abidance of this knowledge of the Self. Meaning if the person is not keen on the atma vidya, then pravritti marga is given to them. Because they have the deha abhimanam strongly and look for doing sakama karma. They desire to live in this world for a long period of time engaged firmly in action or devoted to action. They don’t want to give up this desire for action. So pravritti marga is the best suited or advised for them.

      How is kurvan eva (verse 2) indicating niṣkāma-karma?

      Answer:kurvan eva is indicating niṣkāma-karma because

      • eva denotes without any carelessness and being alert and engaged in action and
      • being dedicated to do his duties or actions as he is firmly identified with his upadi, he performs dedicated action to grow.

        In this manner, he being

      • taken up his duty.
      • Focussing on that duty
      • Dedicated to that duty

      He gets hanker to hold on and not taken away by kama adhi, and is able to focus, he gets the ability to free himself as this itself keeps the raga (attachment) and devsha (aversion) at bay.

      • It keeps the person disciplined.
      • It removes pratyavaya dosha and slowly nobility is awakened and changes start to happen and he moves from sakama to nishkama and then to Iśavasya idam sarvam.

    • #624051
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Q1. Why should one have the notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam and what is its result?

      The goal of human life is to achieve liberation by attaining Self-knowledge. The notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam leads to the vision of Oneness of Jiva and Brahman, which is nothing but liberation. The upanishad says that with this notion, one is protected from sorrows and disturbances caused by samsara. There are no desires, since the entire world is me alone. With kāma and sankapla gone, there is not krodha etc. There being no second entity, there is no fear and insecurity. There is total peace and security.

      Q2. For whom does the upaniṣad prescribe duty to be performed and why?
      Human beings are at various stages of spiritual evolution. For someone who is not ready to give up desires which is essential to have the vision of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam, the upaniṣad prescribes duties. If duties are given up even before the person has developed sufficient four-fold qualifications for knowledge, the person may descend down to the tamasik lifestyle. For such people, it is essential that they continue in the प्रवृत्ति धर्म till they evolve from सकाम कर्म to निष्काम कर्म gaining eligibility for knowledge and finally leading to निवृत्ति धर्म.

      Q3. How is kurvan eva (verse 2) indicating niṣkāma-karma?

      ‘Eva’ in kurvan eva emphasises ‘only’. Any action has two aspects: the act of doing and the result of action. The person desires to live for hundred years by doing his duties only, not by desiring results of action. When duties are done as an offering to the Lord ईश्वरार्पण बुद्धि- raga-dvesha is reduced. When there is no insistence on a particular result – all results are accepted in प्रसाद बुद्धि – it brings equanimity. Thus Kurva eva indicates niṣkāma-karma.

    • #624052
      1. Why should one have the notion of īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam and what is its result?Ans: To realize our true Self. Result is no ignorance and hence no more birth
      2. For whom does the upaniṣad prescribe duty to be performed and why?Ans: Prescribed for one who are in ignorance. It is prescribed because it will prepare man from to transcend from Pravrti marga to Nivriti marga
      3. How is kurvan eva (verse 2) indicating niṣkāma-karma?Ans: It indicates that the action is to be performed only for the purpose of doing action as an offering to the god and accepting whatever maybe the result. The emphasis is only on action with out any desire for specific result, hence it indicates niskaama-karma.

    • #624080
      Sinduja Kosgi
      Participant
      1. Why should one have the notion of isavasyam idam sarvam and what is its result? We should have the notion of isavasya idam sarvam to protect ourselves from sorrow which rises out of the notion of individuality. Instead of identifying oneself with the True self,which is the all pervading consciousness, one identifies with the body, mind and intellect and greatly suffers.
      2. For whom does the upanishad prescribe duty to be performed and why?The upanishad prescribes duty for one who has not realized one’s own Self as the all pervading Reality. Duty when performed without being anxious for the results and as a worship of the Lord, purifies the mind and paves the way for Self Knowledge.
      3. How is kurvan eva (verse 2) indicating nishkama karma? The word Eva refers to alone – Kurvan eva means, by being focused on work alone and not on the results indicates nishkama karma. Without a desire, no action is possible, but, when i focus on the work alone, without being anxious about the results or any insistence on a particular result, and do the work as the worship of the Lord, this work becomes nishkama karma.

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